Tämän vuosituhannen LS moottorit

[Anza]

Heittelen tähän spämmiä vaihteistojen sopivuuksista.

Vuosina 99-00 4.8  ja 6.0 moottoreissa pidempi kampiakseli. "Long crank" tai "thick flange" jolloin vetolevy tai vauhtipyörä asettuu 0.393" - 0.400"
(n. 1cm) ulommas kuin normaalisti, tai uudemmissa.

Alla amerikan foorumilta muutama kooste. Omalla harkinnalla. Monessa keskustelussa esim väitettiin ettei LQ4 99vm pidempään kampiakseliin ole manuaaliin sopivaa vauhtipyörää olemassa, koska BBC 168 hampainen sopii, mutta startin hammaskehä jää liian kaus. Kuitenkin Summitin sivuiltakin kerrotaan:
The 1999-2000 LR4 with a manual transmission had a crankshaft with a 1.250 in. long rear flange. (Casting #12553312)
All other LR4's had a crankshaft with a 0.857 in. rear flange.

Eli LR4 moottorin vauhtipyörä pitäis sopia myös 99 LQ4? Rockautossa tosin ei tainut olla sellaista nyt myynnissä.



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This is a list that shows the differences in flywheel flange thicknessess.

Crankshaft Replacement Caution For
1998-2005 GM 4.3, 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 & 6.0L Engines

The AERA Technical Committee offers the following information on crankshaft replacement caution for 1998-2003 GM 4.3, 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0L engines. Design changes in the flywheel flange thickness have been made to some crankshafts used in the above-mentioned engines. This bulletin is being re-published with additional information.

The later crankshafts are shorter on the flywheel flange as seen in the listing below. These changes are due to the many different vehicle / transmission combinations being built by GM.

A flywheel spacer ring GM Part #12563532 and a longer bolt set GM Part #12563533 is required when using a thin flange crankshaft to replace a thick flange crankshaft. Also, if the crankshaft is being used in a vehicle, which is a standard shift application, you also need pilot bushing GM Part #12557583 or 12479894.

Note: GM part numbers correct as of 12-18-04.

Years Liters Casting # Trans Flange Thickness

1998 early 4.3L 236, 255 V-6 1.62 thick flange
1998+up 4.3L 236, 255 V-6 1.500 thick flange
1999-2000 4.8L 312 V-8 M/T 1.25 thick flange
1999-2000 6.0L 215 V-8 1.25  thick flange
1999-2005 4.8L 482 V-8 A/T .857 thick flange
2001-2005 4.8L 482 V-8 M/T .857 thick flange
1999-2005 5.3L 216 V-8 A/T .857 thick flange
1997-2005 5.7L 216 V-8 .857 thick flange
2001-2005 6.0L 216 V-8 .857 thick flange

All GEN III crankshafts used in Camaro, Corvette and Firebird have a .857 thick flange and also have a freeze plug installed at the bottom of the pilot shaft hole. The 4.8, 5.3 + 6.0L don?t have the freeze plug. The drilled hole thru the centerline of the 5.7L LS1 & LS6 crankshafts allows a path to balance crankcase pressure within the lower crankcase. Doing so has eliminated possible oil consumption when the engine is operated over 4800 RPM.

Caution: Early crankshafts use a flat reluctor wheel and late have a recess. Recess will work on all years. Do not use a flat reluctor on late applications as it will cause an engine misfire.


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When installing a different (non-stock) transmission there is often confusion over what flexplate to use and whether a spacer is needed. When swapping an LS engine into a custom Hotrod, there is even more confusion:
long versus short cranks
dished versus flat flexplates
whether the desired transmission needs a spacer or a pilot extender sleeve.
I will therefore try to clarify some of this. (Many thanks to Chris from CircleD Converters for explaining this to me, providing the crank pictures and proof reading this article.)

A key concept is understanding what is meant by "short crank" versus "long crank". The SBC, BBC and all GM engines before the LS engine had a crank which ended about .740" past the back of the block. This position of the crank with respect to the back of the block is now called "long crank". The LS engine was designed with a shorter crank, it is about .400" shorter than an SBC/BBC crank with respect to the back of the block and is therefore called a "short crank". (The LS crank only extends about .340 past the back of the block.)

Here is a picture of the short versus the long crank. (Both cranks were cut at about the position of the rear-most connecting rod.) Notice that the cranks have a lip of about .300" depth for mounting the flexplate.





To add a bit of confusion, a few LS engines in '99 and '00 for truck applications were built with a "long crank"; I will detail that later.

Lets start with a stock Gen-4 FBody with an LS1 engine and 4L60E transmission. It has a short crank and a dished flexplate. While the LS crank is short, GM wanted the starter and converter in a "normal" GM position and therefore created a dished flexplate with a 0.575" offset. The LS-style 4L60E transmission has a 300mm input shaft (and a bolt hole in the 12 O'Clock position) and uses an LS-style converter. The 3 converter bolts are on a unique 11.066" diameter pattern, which is different from previous SBC and BBC patterns. The LS converter also has a longer (than SBC/BBC) pilot extending about .600" past the converter pads.

To install a different transmission into your LS1 F-Body, you need to know the bolt pattern and pilot depth of different converters. Here they are:
TH400 and 4L80E have a 11.5" diameter bolt pattern, sometimes called the "big" pattern.
TH350, 700R4 and LT-style 4L60E have a 10.75" diameter bolt pattern.
LS-style 4L60E have a 11.066" diameter bolt pattern.

The pilot for all non-LS converters extends only .250" past the mounting pads (versus about .600 for LS-converters).

Therefore, if you want to install a 4L80E in your LS1 car, you have two problems - the bolt pattern is wrong and the converter's pilot is too short. The solution is to install the GM spacer and a flat flexplate that has the 11.5" bolt pattern. The .405" thick spacer is installed between the crank and the flat flexplate, effectively making the crank act like a "long crank" with the hole for the pilot extended far enough to properly engage a 4L80E converter. The starter will also properly engage.

Here is a picture of the GM spacer part #12563532; you also need 6 longer bolts #19257940.



And when it it bolted to a short crank, the combination is the same length as a long crank.



In other words, to use a flat flexplate you need either a long crank or a short crank with the GM spacer.

Someone on a tight budget might be inclined to try to use the stock dished flexplate, drill new holes for the 11.5" or 10.75 bolt pattern and place the spacer after the flexplate (crank, flexplate, spacer). While this will bolt up properly, care must be taken to ensure that the spacer is properly centered by the lip on the crankshaft. (Details: The lip is .300", the stock flexplate is .150" leaving .150"; now subtract the .040" chamfer on the crank and .040 chamfer on the spacer and only .070" is available to center the spacer. However, sometimes the lip is less and/or the flexplate is thicker.) If the spacer if only positioned by the bolts and not centered on the lip of the crank, this may cause vibration and potential future breakage or problems.

Instead of using a spacer, a pilot extender sleeve can be used with a dished flexplate. It is not ideal; since the extender is relatively loose, there are reports of it causing noise. This is what the sleeve looks like:

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As mentioned, some '99 and '00 LS1 truck engines came with long cranks, a flat flexplate and a 4L80E transmission without a spacer. It appears that most (all?) LQ4 6.0l Vortec truck engine have the long crank; there are reports that some 4.8l Vortec engines also have the long crank. Obviously these long crank engines will bolt up easily to a non-LS transmission, but they cannot be used with an LS-style 4L60E unless a custom converter with a shorter pilot is purchased.

For those of you calculating the offset numbers, the OEM flat flexplate is .175" thick, plus the .405" spacer gives a total offset of .580". This compares with the OEM dished flexplate which is .150" thick and has a dish of .425" for a total offset of .575.

In the following picture a stock flat flexplate is on the left and a multi pattern dished flexplate is on the right:



The following picture shows the flat flexplate sitting on a long crank (left), and the dished flexplate sitting on a short crank (right). Notice that the total offset of each combo is the same:



A popular LS flexplate upgrade is the TCI #399753 which has a dual pattern to support both 10.75" and 11.066" diameter converters. While it appears flat, its thick design and and thick mounting pads for both the crank and the converter mimic the stock dished flexplate with its .575" offset. Due to its thick design it should not be used with the GM spacer because there is no crank lip left on which to properly center the spacer.

Similarly, the TCI flexplate #399754 is identical to the 753 except it is drilled with the 11.5" 6-hole pattern to support 4L80E converters. It is very thick and has the same .575" offset. To mount a 4L80E converter Chris recommends not using the GM spacer with it (no lip left to center it) and instead using a pilot extender sleeve.

Last, remember that a custom converter company like CircleD can build e.g. a 4L80E or TH400 converter with a longer pilot so that a spacer or pilot extender sleeve is not needed. Generally there is little or no additional charge for this.


https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/1777893-all-about-flexplates-converters-transmissions-spacers.html

[sössö]

omituista kulumista auton moottoriksi tuossa yhdessä pytyssä mistä otin männän pois mitatakseni männän koon. Yleensä amerikankoneessa tuntuu olevan niin että on iso olka siinä yläkääntökohdassa missä mäntä menee, mutta voi olla ihan hyvänkin näköinen (joskin kiiltävä) pytty vielä. Tässä nyt näyttäisi sellaselta loppuun ajetulta mopon pytyltä missä mitään olkaa ei ole mutta kaikkea kynteen ja sormeen tuntuvaa naarmua ja raapaletta on.

[Anza]

Punnailin kampuroita +-2g eli vähän kun heilutteli vaakaa, niin sain tasalukemat.

LQ4 -99    24,738kg (thick flange)
LM7 -02    24,000kg vuosiluku sinne päin.

(Edit. LQ4 kampura painaa dampperin pultin kans tasan 25kg) lukemat nyt molemmissa ilman pultteja.

Oiskohan mäntä+tappi+veivit laakereineen eroa noin 352g (8 KPL)
LM7 vs. LQ4




Ja LQ4 mäntä+veivi+laakerit. 4.00 poraus ja männässä noin 1.4mm syvempi alue. Ei oo siis tasainen laki, vaan upotettu tai recessed tms.

[sössö]

onko gen 4 moottoreissa vieläkään jotain fiksua ratkaisua siihen öljypohjassa olevien öljysuihkujen tulppaamiseen vai kuuluuko sinne edelleen laittaa se ihme 90 asteinen käikäle mikä suihkuttaa öljyt takasin öljypohjaan?

[Stige]

onko gen 4 moottoreissa vieläkään jotain fiksua ratkaisua siihen öljypohjassa olevien öljysuihkujen tulppaamiseen vai kuuluuko sinne edelleen laittaa se ihme 90 asteinen käikäle mikä suihkuttaa öljyt takasin öljypohjaan?

Öö siellä on reikä kierteellä = pultti reikään? 
Antasin kyllä olla vaan, ei siitä deletestä mitään hyötäkään oo.

[sössö]

Öö siellä on reikä kierteellä = pultti reikään? 
Antasin kyllä olla vaan, ei siitä deletestä mitään hyötäkään oo.

Niin sen siis voisi ihan vaan tulpata ilman että vaikuttaa mihinkään muuhun?

No juu, laitan sen latikkapalikan sinne sen orggis systeemin kanssa sitte takasin niin menkööt siellä.

[Stige]

Niin sen siis voisi ihan vaan tulpata ilman että vaikuttaa mihinkään muuhun?

No juu, laitan sen latikkapalikan sinne sen orggis systeemin kanssa sitte takasin niin menkööt siellä.

Runkolaakereiltaha se mun mielestä se öljy sinne tulee eli teoriassa voi rungot saada marginaalisesti enemmän voitelua jos ne tulppaa. Veikkaan että hyöty on ihan +/-0 teki kummin tahansa sit.
Ja noissa missä on nää kaikki DOD, AFM, piston squirtterit yms se vakio pumppu on paljon tehokkaampi kun vanhemmissa kun se on kyllä tehtailla otettu huomioon että sitä öljyä tarvitaan sinne enemmän useemman "vuodon" takia.

[sössö]

Runkolaakereiltaha se mun mielestä se öljy sinne tulee eli teoriassa voi rungot saada marginaalisesti enemmän voitelua jos ne tulppaa. Veikkaan että hyöty on ihan +/-0 teki kummin tahansa sit.
Ja noissa missä on nää kaikki DOD, AFM, piston squirtterit yms se vakio pumppu on paljon tehokkaampi kun vanhemmissa kun se on kyllä tehtailla otettu huomioon että sitä öljyä tarvitaan sinne enemmän useemman "vuodon" takia.

Joo ja eri koneissa on kai eri pumppuja kun oli vin numeron perusteella. Tämä oli vin3 kone ja pumppu.

Ootko pyörittäny öljypaineet kasauksen jälkeen ennen käynnistystä vaan startilla kone paikallaan puolan johdot irti tai jotenkin vastaavasti?

[Stige]

Joo ja eri koneissa on kai eri pumppuja kun oli vin numeron perusteella. Tämä oli vin3 kone ja pumppu.

Ootko pyörittäny öljypaineet kasauksen jälkeen ennen käynnistystä vaan startilla kone paikallaan puolan johdot irti tai jotenkin vastaavasti?

Just noin, sahaan niin kauan ilman ohjausta et näkyy öpainemittarissa paineet kunnolla. Jos o kuiva pumppu ni voitele/rasvaa se jollai paksulla enne asennusta, ei oo ikinä ollu ongelmia nostaa niitä paineita pelkällä startilla

[sössö]

Ok, kiitos.